Discussion:
Demis maps
(too old to reply)
Lars Aronsson
2005-08-31 01:56:01 UTC
Permalink
The company Demis in the Netherlands sells software for a map
server and also runs a demo on their own site. The map data for
this demo have been collected from public domain sources, and the
company doesn't claim any copyright for the generated maps. The
maps are not the very best, but good enough for many purposes.
Some maps of this origin are already at Wikimedia Commons, e.g.
Loading Image...
and have been used for further processing, e.g.
Loading Image...

I developed a simple tool that makes it easier to find the right
map, and then I uploaded two dozens of them to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Public_domain_maps_from_demis.nl

However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool. They would prefer if somebody could buy the
Demis software and run their own server. Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.

Does anybody have a Demis server running already, that I can use
for my tool? There are many WMS-compliant servers out there, but
most have very fuzzy or complicated copyright restrictions.
--
Lars Aronsson (lars-***@public.gmane.org)
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Thomas Koll
2005-08-31 04:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Aronsson
However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool.
The map needs to be generated only once for Wikipedia, I don't think
that
more than a dozen Wikipedians will do that anyways. Simply don't
propagate
the existence of that service to prominently.
Post by Lars Aronsson
Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.
OK, that's always a reason to be concerned...

ciao, tom

--
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:TomK32
http://www.tomk32.de
Jens Frank
2005-08-31 06:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Aronsson
The company Demis in the Netherlands sells software for a map
server and also runs a demo on their own site. The map data for
this demo have been collected from public domain sources, and the
company doesn't claim any copyright for the generated maps. The
maps are not the very best, but good enough for many purposes.
Some maps of this origin are already at Wikimedia Commons, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hrusica-in-contex--raw.png
and have been used for further processing, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationArno.PNG
I developed a simple tool that makes it easier to find the right
map, and then I uploaded two dozens of them to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Public_domain_maps_from_demis.nl
However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool. They would prefer if somebody could buy the
Demis software and run their own server. Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.
Does anybody have a Demis server running already, that I can use
for my tool? There are many WMS-compliant servers out there, but
most have very fuzzy or complicated copyright restrictions.
Hi Lars,

I'm currently setting up a mapserver ( http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ )
based WMS infrastructure, integrating it into MediaWiki's GIS extension. The
idea is to remove almost all of those "City in country" images like in
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_am_Main
and generate those automatically from a <geo> tag within the article:

<geo>
50 07 N
8 41 E
city
inhabitants: 650000
altitude: 112m
show map
</geo>

(Syntax will probably change)

If you click the auto-generated map, you will be sent to a mapbender
( http://www.mapbender.org/ ) based map application. There you can scroll
around, explore the world. If you click on a city, the wikipedia article
for that city will be shown. If you zoom in, smaller towns or even placemarks
within towns will show up.

Currently I use NASA's blue marble for fancy background and CIA's
political borders for more boring background. Demis' hillshading would
be a real improvement to this.

Data is stored in PostGIS, since it supports geospatial indices.

Future plans:
- On large scale maps, show also the locations of images from commons
(if geotagged)
- provide an interface to the community to also edit rivers, streets, etc
CIA data on these is quite crappy.
- collaboration with other data-generating GIS projects, e.g. with the
people that generate city maps from GPS tracks.

A first screenshot is available at http://jeluf.mormo.org/~jf/wikimaps3.pdf
(Yes, there are UTF-8 issues to solve. I know already how to do it. Yes,
I need help of a web designer. This still looks like an engineer-made web
page)

Tasks done:
* Compile two dozens of tools and libraries
* Store GIS data from wiki articles
* Show GIS data in mapbender
* autogenerate maps from coordinates in wikipages
* Integration of various sources for layers (Blue Marble, CIA data, some
others)

Open tasks:
* make cities clickable (50% done, needs some more filtering)
* make extent of autogenerated maps nicer. E.g. for "city in Germany",
show all of Germany.
* Web interface design. Not neccessarily monobook...
* Package everything, documentation

Time schedule:
* First public testbed in 2 weeks.
* Release in 2 months.

Regards,

JeLuF
Heinz-Josef Lücking
2005-08-31 17:48:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koll
Post by Lars Aronsson
However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool.
The map needs to be generated only once for Wikipedia, I don't think
that
more than a dozen Wikipedians will do that anyways. Simply don't
propagate
the existence of that service to prominently.
On the german wikipedia the existence of the demis web-mapping-service is
known more than a year ore more

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Karten#Weltweit_und_f.C3.BCr_jedes_La
nd

heinz
Post by Thomas Koll
Post by Lars Aronsson
Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.
OK, that's always a reason to be concerned...
ciao, tom
--
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:TomK32
http://www.tomk32.de
Heinz-Josef Lücking
2005-08-31 17:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Have also a look on http://www.giswiki.de/index.php/QuickWMS-Extension. It's
an extension for mediawiki that integrates web map services

Heinz
Post by Lars Aronsson
The company Demis in the Netherlands sells software for a map
server and also runs a demo on their own site. The map data for
this demo have been collected from public domain sources, and the
company doesn't claim any copyright for the generated maps. The
maps are not the very best, but good enough for many purposes.
Some maps of this origin are already at Wikimedia Commons, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hrusica-in-contex--raw.png
and have been used for further processing, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationArno.PNG
I developed a simple tool that makes it easier to find the right
map, and then I uploaded two dozens of them to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Public_domain_maps_from_demis.nl
Post by Lars Aronsson
However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool. They would prefer if somebody could buy the
Demis software and run their own server. Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.
Does anybody have a Demis server running already, that I can use
for my tool? There are many WMS-compliant servers out there, but
most have very fuzzy or complicated copyright restrictions.
--
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Lars Aronsson
2005-08-31 21:07:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heinz-Josef Lücking
Have also a look on
http://www.giswiki.de/index.php/QuickWMS-Extension. It's an
extension for mediawiki that integrates web map services
That sounds good, but who runs the WMS server and who owns the
data? Can the sources handle (1) Wikimedia's strict freedom
requirement and (2) the Slashdot effect on their servers?

There are many such ideas in the [[category:Wikimaps]] on meta.
But we have to make a difference between futuristic ideas and
things that work here and now. For example, today I inserted maps
in the Russian Wikipedia's article on lake Onega and in the Danish
Wikipedia's article on island Lolland. These languages have
30,000 articles each, and still they don't have maps for some of
the most central parts of their own countries. I look forward to
your SVG/JAVAX/WMS real time updated maps in 2007, with names in
the right language fetched from Ultimate Wiktionary. But right
now this project needs some simple free maps to fill in the most
embarrasing blanks. Within one year, Danish and Russian should
have 100,000 articles (assuming an annual growth factor of 3).
Many of these will be written by volunteers who get inspiration
from the beautiful maps.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B6%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolland

These maps are green-and-blue without names. This is when you
download the PNG image from Commons and start GIMP to add names
and features in your favorite language.
--
Lars Aronsson (lars-***@public.gmane.org)
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Heinz
2005-09-01 18:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heinz-Josef Lücking
Have also a look on
http://www.giswiki.de/index.php/QuickWMS-Extension. It's an
extension for mediawiki that integrates web map services
That sounds good, but who runs the WMS server and who owns the
data? Can the sources handle (1) Wikimedia's strict freedom
requirement and (2) the Slashdot effect on their servers?
There must be a seperation between WMS servers and geodata
The Demis-maps e.g. are as free as the underlying geodata.
The demis-WMS server on the other side is not free software.
But the data could also be provided by a free WMS-Server. e.g. UMN-Mapserver
That server should be run, where the Wikipedias are running

But the biggest problem are neither free WMS-Servers or free geodata.
The problem is to get people doing the job
Post by Heinz-Josef Lücking
There are many such ideas in the [[category:Wikimaps]] on meta.
But we have to make a difference between futuristic ideas and
things that work here and now. For example, today I inserted maps
in the Russian Wikipedia's article on lake Onega and in the Danish
Wikipedia's article on island Lolland. These languages have
30,000 articles each, and still they don't have maps for some of
the most central parts of their own countries. I look forward to
your SVG/JAVAX/WMS real time updated maps in 2007, with names in
the right language fetched from Ultimate Wiktionary. But right
now this project needs some simple free maps to fill in the most
embarrasing blanks. Within one year, Danish and Russian should
have 100,000 articles (assuming an annual growth factor of 3).
Many of these will be written by volunteers who get inspiration
from the beautiful maps.
Internationalisatzion of names can easy be done by creating map-texts (in
their own language) from a database.
This allready a work in progress.
* http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia/extensions/gis/
* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gis
* http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Georeferenzierung
* http://kvaleberg.com/extensions/mapsources/

The beautyful maps allready existing in the wikipedias show on one side a
lot of work by the editors.
On the other side maps have often to be created again and again.
Another problem is the reduction of information of a map and that these maps
can't easly be changed by other editors cause they are raster maps.

[...]
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B6%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE
Post by Heinz-Josef Lücking
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolland
These maps are green-and-blue without names. This is when you
download the PNG image from Commons and start GIMP to add names
and features in your favorite language.
--
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Heinz ( http://www.giswiki.de )

topi
2005-09-01 08:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Aronsson
The company Demis in the Netherlands sells software for a map
server and also runs a demo on their own site. The map data for
this demo have been collected from public domain sources, and the
company doesn't claim any copyright for the generated maps. The
maps are not the very best, but good enough for many purposes.
Some maps of this origin are already at Wikimedia Commons, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hrusica-in-contex--raw.png
and have been used for further processing, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationArno.PNG
I developed a simple tool that makes it easier to find the right
map, and then I uploaded two dozens of them to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Public_domain_maps_from_demis.nl
Post by Lars Aronsson
However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool. They would prefer if somebody could buy the
Demis software and run their own server. Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.
Does anybody have a Demis server running already, that I can use
for my tool? There are many WMS-compliant servers out there, but
most have very fuzzy or complicated copyright restrictions.
--
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Here is a screenshot of a email-contact i had on April 2004 with
www.demis.nl on the matter GNU FDL

Loading Image...

Heinz
Heinz
2005-09-01 17:30:30 UTC
Permalink
I think the UMN Mapserver (http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu ) would be a good
choice in terms of quality and copyright (its open source). Have a look on
the sample page (http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/gallery.html) .
Post by Lars Aronsson
The company Demis in the Netherlands sells software for a map
server and also runs a demo on their own site. The map data for
this demo have been collected from public domain sources, and the
company doesn't claim any copyright for the generated maps. The
maps are not the very best, but good enough for many purposes.
Some maps of this origin are already at Wikimedia Commons, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hrusica-in-contex--raw.png
and have been used for further processing, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationArno.PNG
I developed a simple tool that makes it easier to find the right
map, and then I uploaded two dozens of them to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Public_domain_maps_from_demis.nl
Post by Lars Aronsson
However, the people at Demis are concerned about a "Slashdot
effect" that might overburden their map server if everybody starts
to use this tool. They would prefer if somebody could buy the
Demis software and run their own server. Unfortunately, the map
server only runs on Microsoft Windows.
Does anybody have a Demis server running already, that I can use
for my tool? There are many WMS-compliant servers out there, but
most have very fuzzy or complicated copyright restrictions.
--
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
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